The City of Edmond’s UN-Sustainable Sustainability Forum Dec 6

December, 7 2010

Kaye Beach

**See Also;

What the Heck is Wrong with Edmond?

 

About 200 people showed up at the Edmond Sustainability Forum Monday evening.  Judging from the available seating I suspect that was at least twice as many as expected.

The meeting didn’t last long owing to an overwhelming number of residents bent on having their questions answered before being split up  into discussion groups and shuffled off.

Shannon Entz, Edmond’s Community Development Block Grant coordinator opened the meeting and in short order (less than 2 minutes after the start of the meeting) asked the attendees to break up into groups for discussion which was met with resistance from a variety of participants who thought more time should be spent talking about “sustainable development” what it means and its origins.

The first question asked of her was straightforward enough.

“Since this is the first Sustainability meeting can we talk in this group about sustainability first?”

Another asked Ms. Entz

Can you please define sustainability for us?”

Ms Entz had this handy reply ready for just such sticky moments;

“I tell you what.  Would someone in the audience like to volunteer to answer that question?”

When one gentleman spoke up about Agenda 21 explaining that it was a United Nations program, Entz replied;

“We don’t know even know what you are talking about.. . . “We are not a part of that….Our agenda has nothing to do with Agenda 21”

A point was then raised about ICLEI.

Once again, Ms. Entz asked the audience to provide an answer.  She was obliged by an informed attendee;

“I can answer that.  Basically, you guys are signed on with ICLEI which is the International organization, a non-governmental organization that promotes the Agenda 21”

Former Mayor Dan O’Neal who was seated in front of me became indignant.

And How did we do that, when did we do that?  I’m sorry!  We have not signed on with any national…international organization!”

Quite a few attendees and Ms. Entz corrected him.  Edmond is an ICLEI member city.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. O’Neal after the meeting and he was genuinely bewildered by the suggestion that Edmond was implementing any plan that had anything to do with the UN.  I had given him my last copy of Sustainable Development Global to Local Plans and told him it was true that ICLEI is implementing the UN’s Earth Charter on the local level just as they plainly state in their materials.

For example,

“Over 10,000 communities worldwide have engaged in Local Agenda 21, a participatory planning process developed by ICLEI for Agenda 21, the global action plan for sustainable development “

http://iclei.org/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/Global/About_ICLEI/brochures/ICLEI-intro-2009.pdf

And

International Goals
Our programs, and projects promote participatory, long-term, strategic planning process that address local sustainability while protecting global common goods. This approach links local action to internationally agreed-upon goals and targets such as:

http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=798

Mr. O’Neal  indicated that he thought the whole thing very implausible and that if the UN tried to implement anything in Edmond they would be thrashed.

“Well, then you are on the same page as just about everyone else in that meeting only maybe they know something you don’t “ I offered.

I hope he does read the book, one of the authors, Michael Shaw and many others have been battling ICLEI for years.

I gave Mr. O’Neal my number and asked him to call me after he looked into it.  I am very interested to see what he thinks.

Ultimately the meeting was cancelled and even the police made a pointed appearance, no one came to blows or mayhem.

I audio recorded the event and here are a few remarks I was able to make out well enough to transcribe and found to be  interesting ;

A supporter of the plan says,

“We have a right to have this meeting and to go into groups and to discuss these things and to offer our suggestions.  This is something that has been going on in the Community of Edmond with the approval of the leaders of our (unintelligible) and it doesn’t require citizens to come here and ….

Another replies:

“So, you’re saying it’s a done deal!”

One gentleman who appears to be at the meeting because he is simply concerned about the environment is frustrated.  He states;

“We have got 2 issues—-We’ve got this ICLEI issue and we have got the conservation issue. They’re pushing us towards discussing it and the conservation issue before we know the real deal and that is the ICLEI issue.”

This statement is widely applauded.

Oklahomans aren’t the only ones getting vocal in their opposition to their city’s partnering with ICLEI to implement Local Agenda 21.

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-09-14/group-sees-city-action-ominous

http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4288

http://www.sonoran-sunsets.com/agenda21.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33346576/STOPICLEI-com-Recall-Facts

http://www.anticlei.com/index.php?pr=Web_Research

You can get a good overview from about the forum held on Monday evening from this article by the Edmond Sun.

Protesters cut short Edmond sustainability forum

EDMOND — A City Council Workshop to share ideas about sustainability was abandoned midstream Monday night amid protests about the City of Edmond’s involvement in sustainable conservation efforts.

. . .“It’s about saving money, saving energy, reducing waste, which the City of Edmond and many of you have been doing for many, many years,” Entz said.

“We’re telling you we don’t want to do that. We want to talk about sustainability — its history — where it comes from,” Edmond resident Robert Semands said amid widespread applause.

Dr. David Newsome asked if a preliminary discussion about sustainability with the entire audience could occur before the groups were formed.

“I’m a little confused about it, and what I do know, I’m a little worried about it,” Newsome said. “And if the unknowing are going to be leading the groups, we’re not going to get anywhere fast.”

Read More

41 responses to “The City of Edmond’s UN-Sustainable Sustainability Forum Dec 6

  1. Poor ICLEI…they came across citizens who are informed!

  2. Poor Edmond…progress slowed by paranoid conspiracy theorists many of whom were not even citizens of the community.

  3. Great coverage, Axxiom! You caught ’em with their proverbial pants down!

  4. TJ from Colorado

    People all over the country are learning about ICLEI and Agenda 21…even one of the official’s attending the climate conference in Cancun admitted that that the sustainability movement is not about protecting the enviroment, it is redistribution of wealth. At least they are finally admitting what the rest of us knew long ago. A little honesty is refreshing.
    For those of you who don’t know about Agenda 21 I would encourage you to do your own research before making the conclusion that we are conspiracy theorists. Don’t be like a sheep led to slaughter, progressives are deciding our future, and it may be one you don’t like.

  5. What happens in Edmond stays in Edmond, eh Freddie old bean?

  6. @Andrew – I guess it depends on which camp you are in, but it strikes me as highly hypocritical for those touting freedom in this country to disrupt a community’s process of self determination in the manner it was done. My feeling is that if you weren’t a citizen of Edmond you should sit there in silence. It’s not your community, you don’t have a voice. Debate it out on the street or some other forum, but not in my town hall. I am sure those who came from outside our city did it for the ‘greater good’, right?

    I came to talk about increasing cardboard collection, getting people out of their automobiles, leaving more trees, not clearing land for commercial developments that don’t happen when there’s lots of commercial property sitting empty. I really thought these were viable ideas for our community that related to sustainability, but based on what I heard last night from people in this camp, I am just a pawn in some world domination scheme of the UN and such ideas should be eschewed. That does not seem reasonable to me.

  7. @TJ – I feel like I don’t know how to talk here. Somebody is co-opting words like sustainability and progressive from their generally accepted dictionary definitions. I don’t know if it’s the UN or who, but I used to think I knew what those words meant and I came to the Sustainability Forum to act on that understanding.

    You don’t think the redistribution of wealth is a good thing? The early Christians thought it was a good idea. What excuse do we as humanity have for poor people?

  8. Pingback: The City of Edmond’s UN-Sustainable Sustainability Forum Dec 6 | don't tread on cat

  9. I like turtles

  10. Hey, don’t worry. God will save us from the pollution!

  11. Ms. Beach,

    Do you have a response for Fred? According to your facebook profile you are a citizen of Oklahoma City. Are you an Edmonite? Were the protesters who disrupted the process citizens of Edmond, or not? I know you don’t want to claim responsibility for the protest, but clearly your website had a role in bringing people there.

  12. Ms. Beach,

    Do you have a response for Fred? According to your facebook profile you are a citizen of Oklahoma City. Were the protesters who disrupted the process citizens of Edmond, or not? I know you don’t want to claim responsibility for the actions of the protesters, but clearly your website had a role in bringing people there.

    Thanks!

  13. Why would we allow this ICLEI group to take over our conservation efforts and what areas we put our tax dollars. We are already doing these things ourselves with wind energy, hybrid cars, ethanol gas and so on. How did a subgroup of the U.N. get our tax dollars and then have us participate in how to spend it in areas of their choice. Are we blind to this. Taxation without representation at its core. On principle alone it is a terrible to let the ICLEI group to spend our money. We should have gotten a general vote on where the money goes.

  14. Eric,
    I am a resident of Norman. As I explained to former mayor O’Neil, my purpose for being in Edmond was 2 fold. I wanted to see what went on at a “sustainability” forum so I would know what to expect. Secondly, my family lives in Edmond and moving there is a consideration.
    I don’t know who all the people were who voiced concerns about some aspect of the meeting or Edmond’s planning, so I cannot answer but there was a sign in sheet at the door.

    I can’t claim responsibility for anyone’s actions but my own but you are speaking of influence and once again, I think you give me far too much credit. You also give others far too little. Do you believe people can think for themselves?

    What is it Fred needs to know from me?

  15. Robert Semands

    For those who are interested in the topic simply go to iclei.com and find the full text of UN Agenda 21 there. It is 40 chapters. Read a few chapters and then let’s talk about what you see there. As for me, it is terrifying and I will fight it to my dying breath with any means necessary. The reason you find the full text of UN Agenda 21 on the ICLEI website is that ICLEI’s sole purpose for existing is to push it. Decide for yourself if it is good or bad but don’t argue with facts. If any municipal government is a dues-paying member of ICLEI they are supporting and implementing a UN agenda.

  16. The issue is not people thinking for themselves, it’s speaking out and disrupting a meeting in a community that you are not a part of. As I stated before, if you are not a citizen of Edmond you are not a participant. You are only an observer. Watch and be silent. If this is something you don’t want happening in your community, go to the leaders of your community and voice your feelings there.

    I would like to know what the intent was in announcing the Edmond Sustainability Forum on this site? Was is simply an announcement, for people’s information, or was it a call to action? Big difference and one that seemed to play out in the meeting. To me it seems kind of like the Rolling Stones hiring a motorcycle gang for security at their concert and then when the gang kills somebody the Stones say, “We can’t control what these people do”. Give me a break. You know the character and disposition of the people who come to this site. You don’t have an idea of what they will do? The meeting was announced on the City’s web site and in the local newspaper. Did it need more coverage than that for those who live here?

  17. Apparently yes Fred the meeting did need more attention. In my opinion it should be getting national attention so people around the country can put there two cents in, whether you like it or not it is simply freedom of speech and nobody got arrested for it. So, I invite all U.S. citizens to the next meeting in Edmond which will be supposedly held this coming January. Our city and it’s policies affect other city’s as well, so why shouldn’t they have voice. I am an Edmond resident and I APPLAUD

  18. WAY TO GO MRS. BEACH FOR HELPING TO OPEN EYES

  19. My God Fred! What did they do?
    I didn’t see any blood.

    Please, try to calm down.

  20. @AxXiom – You missed the point and did not provide a response to the questions asked.

    I think beliefs are such curious things. Once we latch on to them there seems to be very little that reason, science, logic, facts, or truth can do to change our beliefs.

    I am cutting out of this corner of the universe and will resist the temptation to end on a note of sarcasm as you did.

  21. Fred, I was there as an observer and I didn’t say anything.
    sheesh

  22. A.J.T. in Tulsa

    Fred Richard – Based on your objections to outsiders participating in your community, i.e. “The issue is not people thinking for themselves, it’s speaking out and disrupting a meeting in a community that you are not a part of. As I stated before, if you are not a citizen of Edmond you are not a participant. You are only an observer. Watch and be silent…” one concludes that you must object to the illegal immigrants in Edmond participating in your community as well. May I suggest you join I.R.O.N. or some other anti-illegal immigration group and work to eliminate participation in communities by those who are not citizens?

    Or does your outrage only pertain to those who are working to expose the realities of sustainable development and ICLEI?

  23. You people are just too irresistible! ;o)

    @Kaye(AKA AxXiom) You were such a good girl, being a silent observer like you were. Give yourself a gold star. I am not being sarcastic. Why didn’t the rest of the group behave like you? What’s the meaning of this name, AxXiom, anyway?

    @AJT – Sure, people who are in this country illegally should ALSO be persona non grata at such a function. It would be interesting to know if any illegals showed up for this. I can’t imagine many would. You know, people asking for names, addresses, things like that. I kind of think that illegals would want to stay off the radar as much as possible. Your suggestion is noted.

    I cringe when looking at the context that you use the word ‘sustainable’ in, like it’s some kind of sinister thing. The Internet Merriam-Webster dictionary says the first known use of the word ‘sustainable’ was in 1727. That predates UN Agenda 21 and ICLEI by a whole bunch. As I said above, somebody has co-opted the meaning of the word. I’m an old school guy, if there’s any doubt, I go with the dictionary meaning especially when it’s been in use that long.

    My ‘outrage’ is two fold. First: outsiders, interlopers interfering in a forum they have no business in. Second: loud, contentious people disrupting what could have been a productive meeting with the irrelevant. I guess we get a second shot though.

  24. DON’T BE COY FRED WITH YOUR DICTIONARY JARGON. We know exactly what the sustainable thing means in Edmond, Ok and IT IS associated with ICLEI AND AGENDA21

  25. @mathewk – ‘Dictionary jargon’!? Isn’t that an oxymoron? If the dictionary is the standard by which words are defined, then it’s you that’s being ‘coy’ with the word ‘sustainable’. If the dictionary is not the standard by which the meaning of words are defined, we have no basis for communication. What’s your take on ecology, recycling, conservation, etc.? If we can’t agree on the word, ‘sustainable’, let’s use some other terms. Are those all ‘red’, i.e. Democratic, ideas as one fellow suggested at the forum. Republicans don’t go along with the stuff?

  26. Sorry – should be ‘that stuff?’

  27. At the beginning of the meeting last Monday one lady asked Ms. Entz, the forum leader, a direct and reasonable question.

    “Can you please define sustainability for us?”

    There is widespread confusion as to what the word actually means and the confusion was not unique.
    For example, one gentleman, a professor who is teaching a Geography course entitled “Principles of Sustainability”, was having a great deal of trouble finding textbook for “his class because, he explained, “sustainability” is not easily defined.
    At issue was the meaning and usage of the word sustainability in a governmental sense, in a policy-sense and the reason that this is important is that policy changes will affect you directly, your property and your pocketbook.
    The meaning of the word “sustainability”, that the policy is being predicated upon is, in fact, a crucial point.

  28. This is so pointless. Shannon Entz really was too accommodating on that one. :0) I would be fully embarrassed, in all honestly, to ask that question in that forum. What would happen if you were in fifth grade and asked that question in class? If you had a really hard teacher or maybe your dad, they would say something like ‘That’s why we have dictionaries. You can read. Go look it up!” Maybe with a little berating thrown in. The really sweet teacher’s teacher would take the opportunity to enlighten you about word forms. “Sustainability is what we call a compound word. It’s a word that’s made up of two words joined together. What do you think those two words are? Very good, sustain and ability. If we look at what sustain and ability mean, then we will understand the meaning of the compound word, sustainability” I am sure you are following. We should be beyond the fifth grade by now. Why can’t we use the word for what it means and stop hijacking it for a political agenda? I sure don’t understand your geography professor’s problem.

    I went to the Sustainable Edmond meeting tonight and it was more of the same. They don’t want to talk about the self-evident principle of sustainability, they want to talk about the conspiring UN and ICLEI, losing their personal freedoms, redistribution of wealth, etc. The idea struck me tonight that people decrying the literal meaning of sustainability are throwing out the baby with the bath water. It’s a good principal espoused by a bad organization so we better not have anything to do with it.

    It still goes back to those crazy things called beliefs. One of the most profound things I ever heard as a missionary was, ‘If you believe what we say then no explanation is necessary. If you don’t believe what we say then no explanation is possible.” It still continues to be true. I believe that God created the earth for us to inhabit. I believe that He made us stewards of the earth and that we can do a better job in that stewardship. I don’t believe my efforts to carry out that stewardship are impinging upon anyone’s liberties, nor will they bring about some evil new world order. They’re just the right thing to do. I am content with my beliefs as I am sure you are with yours. Isn’t America wonderful!

  29. you sir are a fool. I was at the same meeting in the edmond library. and you clearly don’t get the big picture

  30. sustainable has been hijacked by this agenda 21 bit which Benton Howell is clearly a part of with sustainable edmond. The main points of sustainable development are eerily similar to the points of agenda 21. this sustainable edmond thing is bringing agenda 21 control to our community. You need to do some real research on the subject and don’t turn your nose up at something you don’t like, because it is true.

  31. Remember those mysterious things called beliefs. I don’t believe you were really listening to what was said about the Sustainable Edmond organization. I don’t believe that you’ve done any ‘real research’ on the subject of sustainability. To me all of it sounds like the regurgitation of some pundit’s spiel, that sounds ‘right’ (i.e your are willing to BELIEVE it) to you, instead of really thinking for yourself. All the same catchphrases. All the same themes. Even this site puts out a list of words/phrases to be on the ‘lookout’ for and tells you what action to take when you hear them. Seems more like conditioned response than independent thinking. Group-think.

    I keep hearing the people in this camp keeps saying they want to take action independently without the city telling them what to do, except the city is not telling anyone what to do and no one is saying what independent action they are going to take. It all sounds like people are making an excuse not to do anything under the guise of individual liberty, which you certainly have the right to do. You also refused to start a dialogue on other related topics like ecology, recycling, conservation, etc. If you are going to do nothing, I don’t believe that your plan is desirable.

    Calling me a fool speaks for itself.

    BTW – both the man who talked to me at the first meeting and I got our political party colors wrong. We saw each other at the meeting last night and had a good chuckle over it.

  32. I am all for good stewardship of the Earth, but until you do some REAL research yourself and quit listening to the propaganda from the Sustainable group then you have no idea where this is going and the end results. You are the one in this group bit and regurgitating their false care for our Environment, social Equity (code for social justice), and Economy. I have plenty of my own info. and the reason you keep hearing the same phrases and you think we can’t think for ourselves is because people like yourself ARE NOT GETTING THE MESSAGE SO WE HAVE TO KEEP INFORMING YOU. Also you are right, we don’t have anyone telling us what to do yet, but I’m not going to wait around for the proverbial poop to hit the oscillating fan before I get off my duff and educate people and open their eyes to the truth.

  33. MathewK: You are disrespectful and have resorted to name calling. Were you by any chance born and raised in Oklahoma? Your illiteracy shows through hands down. All of you are wasting each others time. No, Edmond is not sustainable nor will it ever be. It is one of the worst towns, if you could even call it that. And to all you die hards out there, get a life………..find a new place to live. The cockroaches, bugs, fleas, squirrels have taken over this dive a long long time ago………..

  34. @matthewk – Before the first Edmond City meeting, I had NEVER EVER heard of ICLEI or Agenda21. NEVER. Call me illiterate, uninformed, out of touch, whatever. Obviously we don’t move in the same circles, which goes back to that belief thing. Never been to a Sustainable Edmond meeting before last night. I came to that first meeting with a completely independent view of sustainability, one based on the dictionary definition of sustainability, which just coincidentally happened to be in line with what the forum was about.

    When the noise-makers, the disrupters started in, this ICLEI/UN position lost ALL credibility with me. That belief thing again. Children present were reduced to tears from the ugly way people behaved. You are right, I am not getting the message nor will I ever accept the message as long as the loud, obnoxious approach remains the same. You informational approach is totally ineffective with me, regardless of how much ‘real’ information you have. I can be as totally biased as you are on the subject.

    You are for good stewardship of the earth and against false care of the environment. What behaviors do people who feel like you do, exhibit, that exemplify that attitude? To this point all I have heard is what people don’t want to do or maybe more precisely, they don’t want to be told what to do. What do the ‘true’ stewards of the earth do?

  35. Hey all of you half wits out there participating in this so called FORUM……………
    Don’t you have a chicken COUP to clean out or HOGS to SLOP?
    Well then, get going and stop wasting your TIME, sitting around here trying to outword the other half wit.

  36. Hey Fred,
    Your IP address is showing……

    98.175.185.148

  37. And that means what?

  38. No thanks for sharing.

    This seemed to be a semi-moderated forum. My first post was not displayed until after the moderator OK’d it. If you had a poster who’s first post seemed inappropriate, why would it be OK’d and then let the poster continue to add inflammatory material? I would suggest blocking the offending party if you have that capability. I have several computers in my house, all used by different people and they would all show the same IP on the Internet.

  39. Not knowing who Fred is in this forum, he does seem to make the most sense and you Mathew, take a HIKE!
    Go out and buy your family some Christmas….
    You would be more effective!

  40. JJ your clearly are not doing any good here. There is no point of view you have established and have nothing of worth to write, so give your pc and keyboard to someone that can’t afford one.

  41. Fred Richard

    Anybody still following this? I am surprised not to see any chest beating going on here on or even any mention of the City of Edmond dropping their ties with ICLEI. http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x1498149128/City-drops-ICLEI-membership Why is that Ms Beach?

    I was sorry to be out of state when the the meeting took place and was not there to comment in person. Maybe that’s for the best. I have to applaud the activism of this group. Now that you have what you want, I again ask what you good stewards of God’s earth are going to do to magnify your stewardship? Everyone keeps weaseling out on that question.

    It’s also so interesting that the Executive Director of Director of ICLEI directly denies all the allegations made about ICLEI on this site. http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x977546931/ICLEI-denies-property-rights-accusations I guess it’s just more of that UN propaganda, eh? (sarcasm) It’s so hard to know what to BELIEVE on the Internet. Anyone want to go snipe hunting? (more sarcasm)

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s